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Author Topic: Better-armored Humvees saving U.S. lives  (Read 1922 times)
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WENDELLKDUNCAN
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« on: June 27, 2006, 04:05:12 am »

Better-armored Humvees saving U.S. lives

By JASON STRAZIUSO, Associated Press Writer
Mon Jun 26, 2:01 PM ET
 


MUSA QALA, Afghanistan - Spc. Rene Reyes recalls flying through the air, hoping he wouldn't break anything when he landed. Staff Sgt. Dennis Kirk remembers nothing — the anti-tank mine that exploded under their Humvee knocked him out cold.

They are among an increasing number of U.S. soldiers surviving roadside bombings in        Afghanistan thanks to thick armor plate and bulletproof glass windows that now encase Humvees. The front of their vehicle was shorn off, but the armored shell around them remained intact.

Kirk, 24, from Hopatcong, N.J., suffered a concussion and a hairline fracture in his right leg. Reyes, a 22-year-old from Oak Park, Ill., acting as gunner atop the Humvee, had only a cut on his wrist after being thrown nearly 100 feet. Three other soldiers also survived.

After the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan in late 2001, the military drew criticism for sending out troops in "soft-skin" Humvees that couldn't stand up to explosives, and the Defense Department struggled to upgrade its fleet.

Today, soldiers say the improved military vehicles are saving lives.

"We'd be dead right now if it wasn't for the armor," said Staff Sgt. Justin Larson, 24, of Othello, Wash., who helped splint Kirk's leg after the blast in late March hit their Humvee from the 2nd Battalion, 87th Infantry Regiment, 10th Mountain Division.

A military investigation team that surveyed the scene in eastern Paktika province said the Humvee was blown six feet into the air, said Cpl. Jose Cruz, a 22-year-old from Brooklyn who was riding in the back seat.

"We trust our lives with them," Cruz said. "They're damn good vehicles."

Militants have been using roadside bombs more than ever this year in Afghanistan, mimicking the tactics used by insurgents in        Iraq. The military says it finds or detects about 60 percent of the bombs before they go off.

A roadside bomb in Nangarhar province this month killed two U.S. soldiers conducting a security patrol. On Monday, a suicide attacker detonated his car bomb near a U.S. coalition convoy outside the U.S. base in Bagram, wounding two Afghan boys riding past on a bicycle and damaging a coalition vehicle.

Lt. Col. Chris Toner, commander of a new American base outside Musa Qala in southern Helmand province, doesn't let his soldiers leave camp unless they are in a factory-made armored Humvee, shunning even the add-on armor that strengthens older vehicles.

"I have to look at the moms, dads, wives and kids (of soldiers) and tell them I'm doing everything I can to save lives," he said. "We're in the military and we do high-risk things, but as commanders we have to do everything we can to mitigate the risk."

Toner said that during his last tour here, which ended in April 2004, he didn't have all the armored Humvees needed. A roadside bomb killed one of his soldiers in a soft-skin vehicle.

But when he arrived for a second tour in February, his needs were met. Four roadside bombs have hit his Humvees since then, and none of his soldiers have been seriously injured or killed.

"I'm absolutely convinced that the way the Hummers are built today have contributed to saving the lives of my soldiers," Toner said. "The United States military and the        Department of Defense have responded to the need."

In late April, Lt. Sean O'Brien was traveling in the front seat of a Humvee in southern Zabul province when he heard a bang and thought the vehicle hit a rock.

"Then all of a sudden, there was a huge explosion and everything went black," said O'Brien, an officer in the 5th Battalion, 25th Field Artillery Regiment, 10th Mountain Division.

As the Humvee drove into a dry riverbed, it hit an anti-tank mine triggered by the pressure of the tires. One of those tires was thrown 300 feet, said O'Brien, of Sanborn, Iowa.

But the four occupants suffered only minor injuries.

"The Hummer behind us thought they were going to pull out four dead bodies," O'Brien said. "Anti-tank mines can't (mess) these things up. It's wonderful."

Pfc. Harvey Paige, of Texarkana, Texas, who was riding in the gun turret of O'Brien's Humvee, credits the armor plate under the engine for saving his life.

Paige still has nightmares about the attack, and says he now values time on the phone with his wife and four children a lot more. The 28-year-old plans to visit the Humvee plant near his home at the northeastern corner of Texas when he gets back to the states.

"I'm going to go down there and say, 'Hey guys, thanks for that extra armor,'" he said. "That's what saved us."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/afghan_surviving_bombs_lh1;_ylt=AlUwPMegViOVc.muhOAbsphhr7sF;_ylu=X3oDMTBhcmljNmVhBHNlYwNtcm5ld3M-
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2006, 06:13:27 pm »

 Thumbs Up I always felt safe in ours
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2006, 06:54:07 am »

I never did because of the cramped quarters.  Also, if you remember that we lost a soldier and a 1114 on its Maiden patrol.
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2006, 08:25:43 am »

Yea ,Dusty.......barely broke that vics cherry before it and he were gone.....

I'm good at blockin out stuff like that though.....only place I didn't like was right front ,but you know that.....felt like bait danglin on a hook .......rather drive or dumber Gun than that ,but again you already know that.
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2006, 09:19:43 pm »

I do have to say that if it wasn't for that 1114, we would have lost all 4.
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2007, 10:44:57 am »

One of the major hazards for those "after market" up armor kits is that it made the HUMMER "top heavy", more HUMMERs were involved in ROLLOVER incidents - if you were unlucky enough to be the gunner manning the MA DEUCE or grenade launcher, you wound up being crushed to death when it rolled over on top of you.

The vehicle was never designed to be ARMORED in the first place, which resulted in the HUMMER's engine, drivetrain, and suspension system wearing out far faster than planned for because of the additional tonnage added to the chassie.


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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2007, 02:54:22 pm »

The Hummer is hardly Top heavy with Extra armour ..they end up slung even lower and with the motor  and suspension upgrades in the 1114 they hold thier own real well...In a whole year never saw or heard of any rollovers
....A couple prolly happened but not at any large rate...Hummers are wide as hell and with armour have a low center of gravity.
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Gorilla Deuce                    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at    
Gunslingers Live Forever      night only because rough men stand ready
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2007, 04:53:07 pm »

Gorilla, roll center has little to do with a vehicle sitting down on its' springs, unless you do it without adding weight. Proportionally, the more weight you add ABOVE the designed roll center, the more likely you'll roll, and short a roll, less stable and "tippy" the vehicle will be. When you have a short wheel base in proportion to wheel track, the less directional stabiliry you have. Increase the weight on top of that, and  you substantially decrease the speed at which the vehicle becomes uncontrolable. NOT GOOD.

If we are to have a light, armored personell carrier with limited defence and or offensive capabilitiees, we need to design a new truck. Frankly, I liked the M-151A1 (it could not stop a .22 long rifle) and thought the 1114 was too big to be a "replacement" , unless it included replacing the 3/4 ton and 1 1/4 ton trucks, which it seems to have been.  All, BTW, unarmored vehicles.

It is now a replacement for a light WW2 half track truck, and that is exactly what we should build, but up to date, to fill the function of the 1114 does  Iraq. Say with the bullet resistant wheels/tires that are foam inside so punctures and bullet holes don't matter. That way we could engineed from scratch a vehicle that can protect the occupants, have a low DESIGN roll center, be fast and travel with significant battle dammage.

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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2007, 06:21:06 pm »

I understand what you mean Peter...I guess I should have added a bit more info...Most of the weight is below the roll center...the entire bottom is armoured and the top is really not ..not much weight added above the center of gravity..but what all else you say is steel on target I agree...I'll tell you though a 1117 is IMO well suited for the job that the 1114 is doing...take a look at those and tell me what you think...I gotta say there were many times we had our Hummers at extreme angles with not so much as a wheel tip.....They just do not roll easy at all...the top steel is no thicker than your car...and the supports for the turrent armour are aluminum posts ...the only real weight above center is your turrent and it is minimal compared to the armour on the bottom of the vic...if I was a guessing man I'd say pretty close to half of the weight is under the Vic...and well more than half of that armour weight is below your roll center.....add the wide wheel base and it's attitude and and it is pretty stable...but I do get what you mean totally becuase it was an issue with some 998's that just were not made for that mission...once armour was added with out the design of the 1114 those ended up with heavy addon tops mostly fabricated out of half inch steel....
« Last Edit: March 03, 2007, 06:29:56 pm by Gorilla24D » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2007, 06:47:06 pm »

ASV M-1117

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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2007, 06:54:00 pm »

I saw the Pollocks in a vehicle like that.  All decked out in Pollock colors a course.  I got a pic of it somewhere I took pics of the some of the Bulgarian, Ukranian, Slovak, Pollock, and Italian vehicles I came across.
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2007, 06:59:17 pm »

I saw the Pollocks in a vehicle like that.  All decked out in Pollock colors a course.  I got a pic of it somewhere I took pics of the some of the Bulgarian, Ukranian, Slovak, Pollock, and Italian vehicles I came across.
What the Ukranians had was a BMP...much like the 1117...we had a unit of those guys who secured a bridge on Saddams canal that he stole everyone elses water with.. that had three of these in thier small FOB there, We spent many an hour sitting with those guys trading **** and firing each others weapons...Me and another Soldier were showed how to drive thier BMP's ...pretty easy once they showed you what each switch was ...all the labels were in russian but when you know how to drive a vic a clutch is a clutch, a power switch is a power switch, a tac is a tac. and it doesn't matter what the label over it looks like ...got to drive thier **** a bunch of times and i gotta tell you it was some fun.. Grin
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2007, 04:50:58 pm »

that was mine.  I'm here because of it.

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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2007, 11:12:59 pm »

Recruter OUCH! aLL THOSE HOLES,,,,,,,

BTW, saw a vehicle over there with parallel flat metal, looked like 1/4 inch flitch plate, BUT IT COULD HAVE BEEN ALUMINUM ALLOY, all around it about 3 feet away. Said that it was there to bust RPG projectiles before it hit the vehicle.

Anyone ever think of a honeycomb design? Strong as can be and seems to me to be a better design for a fuse buster. 

And there's just GOTTA be a way to induce a current sufficient to set off the primer/cap in an IED, etc etc  at a distance. Or an EMP device to stop the electronics from functioning in a road block running car, even if you "fry" an occupant or three.
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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2007, 06:10:40 am »

Peter ,right now with IED's any idea is a good one......I think what you speak of is one Idea already bein worked on....EMP or something like it......Those RPG cages have been there for a while but I never saw how one worked,we removed ours as it restricted our lines of site to see what was on the roadsides.
,,,only RPG's we saw were set up as IED's and we cuaght them or the couple that fired, overshot us.....One buzzed about 2 foot over a buddy's head one day.It was set up in a steel tube with rebar legs and was aimed to high....
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Gunslingers Live Forever      night only because rough men stand ready
                                        to do violence on their behalf"George
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    Life is Pain,you havn't lived it till you've felt it... ForJack! ...It is what it is.



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