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Author Topic: IED survivor talks about Humvee safety  (Read 1533 times)
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WENDELLKDUNCAN
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« on: June 16, 2006, 01:46:38 pm »

IED survivor talks about Humvee safety


By Seth Robson, Stars and Stripes
European edition, Thursday, June 15, 2006



HOHENFELS, Germany — When a roadside bomb exploded under 16th Military Police Brigade Command Sgt. Maj. Jeffrey A. Butler’s armored Humvee during a recent patrol in Baghdad, the vehicle rolled three times.

Butler, who survived along with his driver, gunner and a passenger, passed on lessons learned from the attack to other soldiers through a video shown to Joint Multinational Readiness Command personnel during a safety stand-down Wednesday at Hohenfels.

The Humvee rollover briefing came days after The Dayton (Ohio) Daily News reported data from the Army’s Ground Accident database showing 85 soldiers died and 337 were injured in Humvee accidents in Iraq between March 2003 and November 2005, including 60 deaths and 149 injuries in rollovers.

Butler said his Humvee fishtailed after it was hit by the IED.

“We rolled three complete times and landed on our wheels in the opposite direction to the way we were traveling,” he said in the video, which featured footage of the vehicle burning moments after the explosion.

One lesson the MPs learned from the incident was the importance of wearing seat belts, something soldiers downrange are sometimes reluctant to do because they don’t want their movement restricted, Butler said.

When the Humvee rolled, Butler and his passenger, who were both wearing seat belts, and the gunner stayed inside the vehicle, but the driver, who was not wearing a seat belt, was thrown out of his door. He sustained a concussion and a cut requiring 10 stitches.

Another lesson was to “battle-lock” the vehicle’s doors. That might have prevented the explosion from blasting open the driver’s door. It also protects against an attacker who might open a door and throw something inside, Butler added.

However, doors should not be battle-locked when driving near bodies of water because of the need for soldiers to quickly get out of a vehicle during a rollover into water, he said.

Other tips offered in the video included:

Loose objects inside a Humvee should be tied down, Butler said. Most of the injuries suffered by his gunner were caused by objects flying around inside the vehicle when it rolled.

Soldiers in Humvees should wear eye protection and hearing protection to shield their ears from possible damage from a loud explosion, he said.

Drivers should keep the key in the lock that secures their vehicle’s radios and other electronic equipment while driving so the gear can be retrieved if there is a fire. When Butler’s Humvee caught fire after the attack, the crewmembers who were still conscious could not find the key, which was in the unconscious driver’s pocket. As a result, the radios were destroyed, he said.

Butler also emphasized the importance of rollover drills in mission rehearsals and talking about road conditions and recent attacks in the area prior to moving out.

Motorcycle instructor Bob McGaffin, who hosted the Humvee portion of the safety day, said Humvee safety was particularly important for soldiers working at Hohenfels.

“We have a big problem with rollovers here,” he said.


http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=37949
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Gorilla24D
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2006, 06:20:01 pm »

Good article.One big problem though only the new doors battle lock.I'm not surprised he would have new stuff with his rank.

There are a lot of guys out there driving Hummers with the transition KIts for 998's .they will not battle lock .

The driver doesn't leave his vic so if anyone shoulda had a belt on I would say it should be him.Bad move for sure.

Gunners are in the wind from the get go.Hell of a lucky dude to stay in during a roll over.

We always used bunjis to strap down everything.Not rubber ones they break easy and get stiff.The ones with nylon on the outside.
very easy to get lose when you need ammo or whatever.
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campjwiii
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2006, 03:25:08 am »

This is interesting.
 The Army in RVN frowned upon - and did not employ seat belts for the reason that one could exzit the vehicle faster under fire -Ambush.

I know this might be regarded as a stupid question
 Are Military Vehicles still using push button starters or are they using keys? - They can't be that stupid....
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2006, 09:38:56 am »

Most are still buttons.
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campjwiii
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2006, 01:33:25 am »

Most? I'd hate to be fumbling in the dark to find my keys during a night ground attack 

Another thing I do NOT understand is Automatic Transmissions on the HMMVEE.
 A Manual Transmission gives the driver more control over the vehicle - down shifting slows the vehicle better that wearing out the brakes  and also saves fuel.

What is the reason for the Automatic Transmission?

The vehicle is 7 feet wide - that means one could not move down the alleys that are typical in the Third World... or down the Soi where I live and this place isn't really the Third World.
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2006, 09:37:39 am »

there are a couple that need a key in before you push a button
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campjwiii
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2006, 02:01:48 am »

And Why the Automatic Transmission?
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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2006, 03:33:49 pm »

Couldn't tell ya.........pretty durable though and with the shifter right by your hand  ...it was easy to use down shift even in an automatic

.....heavy big gears and wide tires....down shift slowed us well as we were only rolling about 25K.........IED hunting means you crawl along searching mile after mile after mile.   
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2006, 04:32:17 pm »

I preferred automatcs. Easier to work the CVC and steer and all the other stuff when you don't have to have a foot on the clutch and a hand on the gear shift.
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RIFLEMAN24G
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2006, 08:33:47 pm »

Most miltary vehicles are switching to auto-transmission. I drove an M-113 that was automatic. Even the 5-tons are switching to automatic transmission. I never wore seat belts or used battle locks. I was gunner 95% of the time and there isn't really a way to keep the gunner in the vehicle in the event of a roll over. I guess you find something to hold on to and pray. The gunner needs to be maneuvarable as much as possible. Battle locks and seat belts can be a bad thing especially if need to dismount immediatly. I think the companies should focus more on improving the air conditioning units Grin, the new vehicles we got over there the AC's burned out right away. The armor and transparent armor was very good against bullets and shrapnel, even RPGs.
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campjwiii
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2006, 02:16:33 am »

Quote
I preferred automatcs. Easier to work the CVC and steer and all the other stuff when you don't have to have a foot on the clutch and a hand on the gear shift.
Couldn't tell ya.........pretty durable though and with the shifter right by your hand  ...it was easy to use down shift even in an automatic

.....heavy big gears and wide tires....down shift slowed us well as we were only rolling about 25K.........IED hunting means you crawl along searching mile after mile after mile.   

An Automatic that you can manually down shift - that is good.
Good info guys -thanks.


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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2006, 01:16:18 pm »

I was a Passenger/Dismount in a M1025 Add on Armor for "A" Patrol. When it came time for a very fast dismount, the ****ing door wouldnt unlock, I was stuck trying to slither over all the ammo/gear inside to get to another door. I will NEVER ride another 1025 NO WAY, NO HOW. I never had that Problem in a M1114, but never wore the seat belt's either.

 Strapping down the gear in the crew compartment is just common sense (you'd think). I Used several footlockers in the trunk to carry our mission gear, an AKM w/Mags, med supplies, etc. Eye Protection is a MUST, I almost lost my sight in an IED blast because I had just taken them off to put on my civvie glasses(I still dont know why I did that).
 Packing list before patrol included, but not limited to;
  • 12 cans Brit 7.62 link
  • 3 cans U.S. 5.56 loose
    • 4 rolls concertina
    • ice chest(for I.V.'s of course Grin
    spike strips X2
    • Flex-cuffs X 12
    • M-5 Medic bags X2
    CLS bags X 4
    • 200 Chemlites(IR, Asstd Colors)
    • TIP Panel
    Several "Q"-Beams(Including an IR)
    • Fuel can
    • 7 Qts. Oil
    Cases water X 2(min)
    • OVM
    • Breaching kit
    "Bullet-proof" LMAO Police shield
    • 12 X NYPD Kevlar vests (used to line floor, seats, etc)
    • Body bags X 5
    My PPsh-41 w/ 3 drums
    • Mossberg M500A
    • M240B with heat sheilds removed(some crews removed the Bipod as well)
    Xtra Barrel for above
    • PACKBOT w/ controller unit
    • Assault Packs X 4

    As you can see the vehicle was typically loaded to the balls with gear for every possible eventuality. In an IED strike (twice) we only suffered 3 WIA, the vehicle suffered no real damage, only us( we were outside each time).

     In the one Jersey Barrier/HMMV jump I was involved in as a Pass/dismount(1Sg's vic, the vic was totaled, & the gunner Bounced out of his perch & into the CSM's lap. He was pissing blood for three days.
[/list]
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2006, 03:37:36 pm »

the combat lock on an 114 saved my life, but also damaged my spine when the IED 4 feet from my truck went off.  It kept the door closed (mostly) and only a small amount of shrapnel entered the truck.

As far as doors locking and unlocking, it was a fun night to go out as a Knight team in one their trucks where the right rear passenger door is locked because instead of a seat, there is a radio rack for all our FIRES nets.  In the back of the truck we had all our gear crammed into acquired hard boxes (stolen from the gun bunnies) AND still had to find a place to stick the GLVVD when it wasn't mounted.  Then our rucks went on the back or the brush guard...

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